Showing posts with label what is church. Show all posts
Showing posts with label what is church. Show all posts

Friday, February 22, 2008

Idle musings on "church"

Earlier in the week, my God in the ordinary post was inspired by a blog post over at Idle musings of a bookseller. Another post there on Tuesday has also kept the attention of my thoughts this week. Simply entitled "Good Stuff," this post has some thoughts about "church," among other things that he quotes from other blogs.

The part that caught my attention:
Tell me something... what if we've got it all wrong? The church thing I mean...

What if church is not supposed to be about "worship"? What then?

What if music is supposed to play a minor role and not a major one (excuse the pun).

What if God doesn't care for self-focussed, romantic lyrics sung to boomer, 1980s, soft pop music...

What if church is supposed to be less about music, monologue, lecture-style teaching in theatre style auditoriums and more about living life with people who share the same questions, struggles, joys and challenges that I do?...

By the way, I have been using the word "church" in quotes lately, not as a means of bashing "church," but as a means of emphasizing that I am questioning the modern, commonly held meanings of what "church" really is. That's all. :)

A few more thoughts on "church"

As I've previously mentioned a few times, I've been going through a process of rethinking many things for quite some time, including "church." I've found it wonderful that many of us are going through similar processes, and it's been great that we've been able to encourage one another and build one another up!

Here are some more thoughts from others about "church" that I've come across recently.

Aida has mentioned Darin Hufford, and she has a link to his MySpace on her blog. Through that link, I read some of his blog posts, including this one, entitled "The Church that Christ built." In this post he brings up some things that I have thought about from time to time, and he really brings some more substance to my thoughts and puts them together much more coherently.

Let me just quote a small part of his post that I'm referring to. This gives the gist of what he goes on to talk about, and if you want you can go read the rest. It gets much deeper than this.
I can recall studying the "5 fold ministry" while in Bible collage. At the time we were taught that those five ingredients are what make up the Church. Where Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors and Teachers are functioning together; there is Church.

Rather than understand that particular verse to mean that these things will exist in the Body of Christ world wide, we have foolishly interpreted it to mean they must exist "underneath one roof".

Have you ever thought that way? I know I have, even if not exactly in the way describe above. I thought, for example, that a church had to have a pastor, elders, a "worship team," committees, and so on and so on, in order to have a true "church." The "5 fold ministry" that Darin speaks about is derived from Eph 4:11-14 (and beyond).
"And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ..."

As Darin states, many churches feel that all five of these must be operating under one roof, or in in any one ministry. But he suggests... are not all these things operating throughout the worldwide church, rather than having to have at least one of each in any individual gathering of believers?

And I think it's the same with all kinds of gifts and works of the Holy Spirit in and through His people all around the world. For example, some people have a true, genuine focus on feeding the poor. Does each and every gathering of people need to have this same focus? Some people are gifted teachers. Can a body of believers be edified without a gifted teacher? I have been taught many times by people who are not gifted teachers!!! Does there have to be a pastor?! Does there have to be music? (See my next post).
For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ. For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body — whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free — and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. For in fact the body is not one member but many. (1 Cor 12:12-14)

Are all the "body parts" to be found in each and every local gathering of believers?

Thursday, February 14, 2008

What people are saying about "church"

Wow...

I don't know why it is, but I seem to be reading and hearing a whole lot lately about "the church," and how it's not an institution or a building, but it's the people. I got to thinking that perhaps I could compile some of these resources together, and so you'll find a list below.

This is by no means an "anti-church" list. :) That is, I'm not attempting to make any points about what anyone should or shouldn't do in regards to how they view "church." I am, however, making a strong suggestion that many of us have perhaps simply gone along with the modern cultural view of "church," and perhaps there is a place for many of us to rethink things, or at least take a look at what God is doing in and through other people in regards to "church."

Throughout my Christian life, I've heard many people give lip service to phrases such as "the church is the people, not the building," but below I think you will find people who are truly following through with this idea in their hearts and in the ways they go about living life. I don't necessarily follow along with every single thought expressed in every single link, but in my mind they are all related to one common idea.

There would be a lot of reading/viewing involved if you were to click on each link so if any of this interests you, perhaps bookmark this particular blog post and come back to it from time to time. Also, feel free to provide other links if you have any.

In no particular order:

Three of Bino's recent posts:
Rethinking 'Church'
Rethinking 'Community'
Rethinking 'Worship'

Aida: Jesus is building His church

Grace in Flood: A Grace Church

Meeting of one: God's Perspective on the Church

Nicole's Godblog: What is Church?

Nightwatch: The Church - Relationship

Steve McVey
Lie #31 You Should Go To Church
Lie #36 Attending Church Will Keep You From Growing Spiritually Cold

The Assembling of the Church - Alan Knox
(the most comprehensive blog that I follow on this subject)
House Church Workshop series (six posts all linked together)
Should we use the word "church"?
The ekklesia and the kuriakon
The ekklesia of Josephus
The ekklesia in context
Ecclesiology FAQ (here Alan lists many of his posts on his study of the church)

Jake Colsen's book: So You Don't Want To Go To Church Anymore

Wayne Jacobsen: Why I Don't Go to Church Anymore!