Monday, June 02, 2008

Tithing

The second post from yesterday that really spoke to me was a post from Forgetting the Former Things called "Learning to Give Out in the Wild." Aida talks about the big difference between Old Covenant tithing and New Covenant cheerful giving.

She writes:
In these New Testament days, we have the life of God in us. That was not true before the coming of Christ. The law, which includes instructions about tithing, was put into effect to bring us to Christ. Now that we're in him, our relationship to the law is ended. That includes the law of the tithe. We're no longer required to tithe and we're not robbing God if we don't.

I know some toes are being stepped on in a major way right now with all this, but the church has been bound up in religion for too long to not talk about it! It never ceases to amaze me how the New Testament church continues to manipulate and twist Old Covenant scriptures in order to come up with New Covenant versions of Old Covenant laws. It's absolutely ridiculous at best, and on the worst end of the scale it puts Christians in undue bondage. In the most commonly used Old Testament passage that the church wrongly uses to get Christians to "pay a tithe" to a local church, God, through the prophet Malachi, was in actuality rebuking the Jewish people for not keeping the tithing laws (note: plural) that He had given them. These laws were given for certain times and for certain purposes that have absolutely nothing to do with the Christian church!

As I said in the comments of Aida's post, I'm planning on confronting this issue head-on here on my blog, hopefully soon! In the meantime, check out her excellent post.

23 comments:

  1. I was so happy to see this post! I was just about to start a mini-series on this myself, but instead I'll refer people to your post. Excellent. People are so deceived on this issue that it amazes me!

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  2. Yes, and it's a deception that's been going on far too long! Some people just won't hear the truth, but I hope that at least a few - hopefully more - will be set free through Aida's post and through more of us talking about it head on.

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  3. Joel, I look forward to reading your post on this subject. I really only scratched the surface with what I wrote. There's so much more that can be said to expose this false teaching.

    People suffer needlessly because they don't know the truth. You're right. I believe people will be set free as more of us speak the truth and expose this lie.

    Aida

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  4. looking forward to hearing your input on tithing. I have a blog totally dedicated to tithing and stewardship. I started it in 2006 and have been posting articles ever since.

    -Jared B
    http://churchtithesandofferings.com/blog/

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  5. Aida,

    I think your post is a great one, and it really hit the nail on the head in a relational way. I have a feeling my post will be more technical (doctrinal), and therefore more boring, LOL, but it's technical stuff that I've wanted to address for a long time!

    Jared,

    I visited your blog and I think you have some great thoughts there. I may disagree with you on a few things - which is fine :) - but I do like the overall gist of what you're saying. I really like the last two sentences of your post from today: "Second, i think people are tithing and still broke because they put themselves under the requirement of a law that had been fulfilled. I think people are tithing and still broke simply because they can’t afford to tithe."

    People are unnecessarily trying to keep an Old Covenant law (really laws) that has been twisted and manipulated into a 'Christian' version of the law. It's nonsense, and in doing so they miss out on giving freely as they have determined in their hearts to give. In my opinion they are also unwittingly reinforcing a church system that was never meant to be - and that's a whole 'nother story that sometimes gets discussed on this blog. :)

    I think they can't afford to tithe for various reasons, as you mentioned on your blog. Having too many material things that they also can't afford is one reason, and another reason for many people is that many people struggle as it is without material possessions, trying to pay the bills and put food on the table. The other members of the body of Christ should be helping them out, rather than expecting a payment from them.

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  6. This is an intresting subject, and I'm not sure where my stand on this will be. There might be two kind of schools concerning the tith in the grace community, this one both you and Aida is talking about and another I heard Joseph Prince teach about. (You can his teaching about that here: http://www.newcreation.org.sg/resources/audio/audiomessage.htm).

    What do you say about tithing actually existing before the law was given, remember Abraham who gave tith to Melkisedek (u call him so in English?)? If it's not a part of the law, but something that has existed before and even now, could it be like someone said: "if you want to get very rich you should tith"?

    Some input here would be nice! :)

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  7. Markus, Abraham did tithe to Melchizedek but there's no indication in the Bible he was required to tithe or that he ever did it again. Taking the scriptures at face value, it seems it was a one time thing done to celebrate his victory. I don't think we can read anything else into it.

    Also, he gave a tithe out of the spoils of war. There's no indication he ever gave a tithe out of everything he owned.

    As I said, nowhere in the Bible are we told that God commanded Abraham to tithe on a regular basis.

    My personal feeling is that if the desire to give a tithe is in someone's heart then they should be free to do so. However, it's wrong to demand that people tithe.

    If someone is giving to get, they've missed the whole point of the gospel. This gospel is a relationship of love and giving not one of trying to get. Father has said he would meet our needs. Nowhere in the New Covenant did he promise to make us rich.

    The reason we give is because we have received. We don't manipulate God into giving to us by tithing. He gives because we're his children and he loves us and, out of love and thankfulness, we give.

    I'm sure Joel will add more but these are my thoughts.

    BTW, Joel, I'm looking forward to your "boring" technical post on tithing. I believe it'll be interesting.

    Aida

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  8. Hi Markus,

    I've heard the Abram tithe mentioned countless times in my church life. It's been taught just as you're saying it here. It was before the Law, so Abram's example is used to say that since tithing isn't a "Law" thing, then it's a great model for Christian giving.

    But it's just like Aida said (I agree with all that Aida has said here):

    Abram's tithe was a one time tithe, out of the spoils of war. It's been a while since I've looked at that biblical account, but if I remember correctly, the spoils were actually things that had first been taken from him and his people. He was simply getting them back, and in thankfulness gave a tenth of the material possessions to Melchizidek. As Aida also said, it wasn't 10% of his weekly income, nor even 10% of everything he had. Just 10% of what he got back after the battle. I'll just be blunt here - it makes me absolutely sick to hear Abram's example used as part of the overall "tithe to your local church" message.

    I plan on writing more about this when I get around to writing my full blog post (which will most likely be a series of posts).

    Christian giving is very simple. There are no formulas. You simply give from your heart cheerfully whatever you determine to give. It's that simple.

    As we look throughout the New Testament examples of giving, we see people giving for all kinds of reasons - and it's always rooted in the fact that someone else has a need and in their hearts they want to help fulfill that need.

    Whenever "giving" becomes about what "I" can get out of it, it misses the whole point of the gospel, as Aida said. In Christ, we are already rich, we are already blessed. We give because we've already been blessed, for the purpose of being a blessing to others.

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  9. Just another thought about the tithe. Under the law, it was ALWAYS cattle or grain. The tithe was NEVER money. This is another example of how the modern day church has been deceived about the tithe.

    Aida

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  10. Aida,

    As a matter of fact, one of the passages that I'm planning on bringing up says this: If the place to bring the tithe [which as you say is not money] is too far, then "exchange your tithe for money, take the money in your hand, and go to the place which the LORD your God chooses. And you shall spend that money for whatever your heart desires: for oxen or sheep, for wine or similar drink, for whatever your heart desires; you shall eat there before the LORD your God, and you shall rejoice, you and your household." (see Deuteronomy 14:22-27)

    What church has this ever been preached in!?

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  11. No church that I know of. I think they'd be shocked if we told them we were going to use our tithe to buy food and then we sat down and ate it.

    As you can tell, I think this subject is fascinating because it's so freeing when you know the truth.

    Aida

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  12. I think I can somewhat feel you. Without love nothing is worth anything before God, and that includes tithing! Your emphazising on that we can't manipulate God into giving to us and that we already have everything in Christ is very important and could be very liberating in many people's life! If I get this right, does this mean that the New Covenant outdate the principle about sawing and reaping too..?

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  13. Hi Markus,

    I've come to a place where I see that the New Covenant is not a matter of "Old Covenant Part 2." In other words, as I look at Old Covenant principles, I'm not trying to interpret them in New Covenant ways or trying to apply them to the New Covenant at all.

    The Old Covenant is obsolete (Heb 8:13). The Old Covenant failed because man never could and never did keep his part. The New Covenant is not a matter of a new ways to keep the Old Covenant. The New Covenant is something completely different, and it's based not on man trying to keep principles, but rather man relying on God's faithfulness, grace and love. It's essentially based upon a covenant between Father and Son, and they both have kept their parts. We are the beneficiaries of the covenant, not the keepers of it.

    Sowing and reaping is a natural progression of circumstances. As far as I can tell from my understanding of the New Covenant, it's not that God pays me back for the good or evil that I've sown. Rather, just because I'm in God's favor, that doesn't mean that things won't naturally go right or wrong due to my actions. In simple terms, if I play with fire I'm gonna get burned. (But yet sometimes I don't get burned). If I give money to a ministry, that ministry will be helped. (But yet sometimes the ministry 'fails'). If it were a matter of an actual principle that God had set up in which He would bless us or curse us according to what we sow or don't sow, then we would always reap bountifully when we sow, whether for good or for evil. If that were really the case, the church would always be giving tons of money and always reaping tons of money in return. But that's just not the way it works!

    Bottom line is God provides for His children because He's their Daddy, not because they've followed a principle of sowing and reaping. This is how I see things and I welcome any more thoughts if you have any.

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  14. Wow I'm very happy to read this blog on this subject of tithe.
    I've often wondered why many Bible teachers are very good in teaching about most subjects of the Bible but fail to teach that tithe is not a requirement/command for the New Testament saint
    I thank all of you for your vital input

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  15. I almost passed up commenting here but I see that I was mentioned in Joel’s post. It’s been a while so I’d forgotten.

    Thanks, Anonymous. This is an important topic which the institution ignores. They won’t and aren’t going to admit that believers no longer are required to tithe since tithing is the backbone of the institutional church. Without it , they couldn’t maintain their elaborate edifices nor pay their staff. While I happen to think that’s a good thing, they don’t. It would cripple them. When you realize that the overwhelming majority of the money goes for maintenance rather than meeting the needs of the poor, it’s shocking.

    If the burden of the tithe were removed from people’s shoulders, then the church would once again have the money to meet needs as they are led by love rather than a law that heartlessly requires 10%.

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  16. I liked the tithing article.

    If I may, I'd like to suggest the inclusion of Numbers 31 in your writings. If Abraham's tithe was intended by God an example He expected to be followed by Israel, then the Lord certainly gave not one thought to Abraham's tithe of the spoils of war because the soldiers mentioned in Numbers 31, those who fought in the battle, were commanded to hand over to the priests only 1/500 of what they received of the spoils, and those who didn't go to war handed over to the priests only 1/50 of what they received of the spoils.

    Both figures, as you can see, are a FAR cry from 1/10. I've never seen this mentioned by any of the pro-required-tithe hounds from behind their religious institution (otherwise referred to as one's "church") pulpits.

    One other things of grave concern to me is the traditional practice of religious people handing over to organized religion the primary, largest portion of their giving. In most cases, the majority of all that so-called "giving" is absorbed into the building and its upkeep, as well as the professional staffing and programs, with only the small remainder used for benevolent purposes, such as to meet the needs of fellow believers and others in the local community, and missions.

    Additionally, the "givers" are essentially lavishing their own so-called "giving" back upon themselves by way of direct benefit they reap from the institutionalized "church" model they support. That isn't "giving" at all when the "givers" reap direct benefit from what they "give".

    The giving of "alms" to the poor never provided direct, physical benefit to the giver, but "tithing" to organized religion does.

    Can you imagine those first century believers laying their giving at the feet of the apostles, and demanding return benefits by way of luxuries here on earth from what they gave? If people would guage what they do by applying it to what can be gleaned from within scripture, the glaring deficiencies would become much more aparent to the casual observer.

    I'm not opposed to a religious group having a communal building and a staff of professional hirelings so long as their support of such a luxury is secondary of our primary responsibility toward fellow believer's needs and the needs of the needy in our local communities. Instead, most people place the cart before the horse by lavishing their "giving" BACK upon themselves and each other in grandiose fassion that is utterly obscene when observed through the eyes of the Spirit.

    Believe it or not, many institutionalists have actually whined to me that if they gave only secondarily to their "church", then they'd have to settle for a much smaller facility with fewer services. I sometimes have to do a double-take on what people say. I've often wondered why they can't see how derpaved they are, as betrayed by the words they speak.

    They even assume that every one of those men who landed a job as "pastor" within institutionalized religion are automatically leaders of biblical stature, and therefore sanctioned by God. It never seems to occur to most that organized religion is not representative of the Church. Unbelievers darken the doorsteps of institutional "churches" every week. The Church, however, has not one unebeliever in its ranks.

    That alone gives us insight into the vast difference between the TRUE local Church, and all those good-ol-boy clubs anyone can walk into, sit down and join, and even plop some support into the passing plate under the watchful, warm gazes of approval from the blind leaders.

    BTW

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  17. THANKS FOR ALL THE COMMENTS POSTED HERE.IT IS INTERESTING THAT PASTORS AND MINISTERS WILL ALWAYS REFER TO ABRAHAM'S TITHE TO MELCHIZDEC AS A PROOF TEXT FOR TITHING. THEY VIOLATE SCRIPTURAL LAW IN SO DOING THIS. IN THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES LET EVERY WORD BE ESTABLISHED IS GOD ORDER. THEY DON'T HAVE THE BIBLICAL WITNESSES TO VALIDATE SUCH A DOCTRINE. MELCHIZEDEC NEVER COMMANDED ABRAHAM TO GIVE THE TITHE OF THE SPOILS. PREACHERS SAY, "SEE, ABRAHAM TITHED BEFORE THE LAW." WELL, IF ABRAHAM TITHED BEFORE THE LAW, HOW CAN YOU NOW USE THE LAW TO COMMAND TITHING FROM A PERSON UNDER GRACE? ABRAHAM WAS COMMANDED TO BE CIRCUMCISED, BUT PASTORS AREN'T LINING UP THE FRONT ROW FOR THOSE BEING COMMANDED TO BE CIRCUMCISED, BUT THEY ARE LINING THE COLLECTION PLATES WITH TITHE MONEY. PREACHERS SAY THAT WE ARE UNDER GRACE WHEN IT COMES TO CIRCUMCISION, BUT WE ARE UNDER THE LAW WHEN IT COMES TO TITHING. WHAT HYPOCRISY! THE THING THAT ABRAHAM WAS COMMANDED(CIRCUMCISION) IS NOW A LIBERTY, AND THE THING ABRAHAM DID AS A LIBERTY(TITHE) IS NOW LAW. NEW TESTAMENT BELIEVERS ARE NOT TAUGHT TO FOLLOW ABRAHAM'S ACTS, BUT TO FOLLOW HIS FAITH.
    A PASTOR RECENTLY TOLD ME THAT TITHING WAS AN ETERNAL PRINCIPLE FROM GENESIS TO REVELATION. GOD BLESS HIS DARLING HEART AND DUMB HEAD. ABRAHAM GAVE A TENTH OF THE SPOILS IN GENESIS CHAPTER 14. THE ETERNAL PRINCIPLE(PUN INTENDED) MUST HAVE ONLY LASTED FOR ABOUT 430 YEARS. IN NUMBERS 31:25-31 THE AMOUNT LEVIED FROM THE SPOILS OF WARS WAS .2% FROM THE WARRRIORS WHO WENT TO WAR AND 2% FROM THE ONES WHO HAD NOT GONE TO WAR. THIS IS THE LAW GIVEN TO MOSES. YOU WON'T HEAR MANY PREACHERS USE THIS AS A PROOF TEXT TO TITHE BECAUSE .2% & 2% IS A FAR CRY FROM THIS SUPPOSED ETERNAL PRINCIPLE OF TIHING THAT ABRAHAM HAD ESTABLIHED.

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  18. Hi there Anonymous commenters. I can't address everything that was said in the last two comments, but there is a lot of good stuff there.

    I think it's a great point, in general, that there are all kinds of "amounts" (percentages, etc) that the Lord commanded (or that were voluntary) in various Old Testament settings (both pre-law and under the law), and it's just plain wrong to focus in on the "tithe" (ten percent) as a standard for giving. It wasn't a standard pre-law or under the law, and it's most certainly not a New Covenant/Christian standard!

    I also like the rest of the institutional church comments in the first anon comment from BTW.

    As well as the Melchizedek/Abraham/tithe/circumcision comments in the second anon comment.

    Thanks all for your comments. Not sure how you landed on this particular post, but this was written a few months before I wrote a series of posts on the tithe, found here. It was somewhat long (ten posts), and yet I had to cut a lot of things out before I posted it because there was so much to say about all this, but it was getting too long). :)

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  19. Askelm.com has a free online book on the tithing dilemma....it really breaks it down in an accurate manner.

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  20. The key is about financial priorities

    God wants us FIRST to look after our families.... (Exod 19:12 and Corban and 1 Tim 5:4 and 8)

    God then wants us to express His love to the poor....through our generosity (Gal 2:10)

    God then allows us freely to support any ministry we want....and as we are able (Mat 17:26)

    The preaching of tithing is an attempt to corrupt the God given scriptural priority in order to put pastors and their 'churches' first.

    Lets stop pretending that giving to churches is 'giving to God'......when God says this is done by giving to the POOR (Mat 25)

    Chris

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  21. Hi Chris, I do indeed believe that we have priorities when it comes to what we do with our finances, and contrary to popular belief, the church and pastor do not rank up near the top of our priority list. :) I think for everyone it's different, as we all have different situations and circumstances in life, and our finances do not look the same for everyone. Each person gets to decide in their heart how they want to use their finances (and other resources), and that's a great thing for the body as a whole.

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  22. 2 Cor 9 : 7 allows us to give what we want and to whomever we want.

    The biblical Tithe was always produce from the land of Israel Lev 27 30-32, which God ordained mainly for the Levites, Num 18 : 21. The tithe is from the law, Abraham did not tithe of his income, but of his plunder Hebrews 7 2-4, most of the rest he gave back to Sodom, Genesis 14 21-22.

    Christian Tithing was instistuted by the catholic church at the earliest 6th century,Catholic Encyclopedia of 1912 p. 259 (s.v. “tithe” ).

    Reading Malachi in context shows even there that tithe was food from Israel "so that there may be food in my house".. much of Malachi is about
    offering defiled sacrifices unto God Mal 1:7 , diseased animals etc. If you want to take Mal 3 as your anthem then you have to take Deut 14 22-26 which money is present yet food is still used as your tithe and this tithe is treated in a way that would be shunned by modern day clergy.

    God bless

    Nigel Naicker

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  23. Very good, Nigel. The tithes were all about feeding people, whether the Levites, or orphans, widows and strangers, and none of it had anything to do with what the church has made it out to be today.

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