tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29606082.post6448754584125321834..comments2023-10-03T06:25:41.357-05:00Comments on Grace Roots Blog: Freed from Tithing, Free to Give - Part 7Joel Bruesekehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10395847887953875757noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29606082.post-76771091426908434462012-01-31T12:14:49.745-06:002012-01-31T12:14:49.745-06:00As to Malachi, he was addressed in Part 6 of this ...As to Malachi, he was addressed in Part 6 of this series. In summary, Malachi was a Jewish prophet. He was sent by God to the <i>Jews</i> because they had neglected the tithing laws that God had given the <i>Jews</i> (Israel). And not only that, but the <i>Jews</i> had also forsaken many other laws that God had given <i>Jews</i>, and so Malachi was sent to the <i>Jews</i> to set the <i>Jews</i> straight.<br /><br />Read all of Malachi, not just a section of Chapter 3, and tell me if you follow all of it. Of course you don't, because you are not a <i>Jew</i> (or at least I assume you're not) and you are not under the Old Covenant, under which those laws and ordinances were given.<br /><br />God told Malachi to tell the <i>Jews</i> to test Him in the tithing laws that He had given the <i>Jews</i>. God also told Malachi to tell the <i>Jews</i> everything else that was written in Malachi. It's an <i>Old Covenant</i> writing, meant for people who were under the <i>Old Covenant</i>.<br /><br />Again, if you want to keep part of Chapter 3, you must keep all of Malachi, and I sincerely believe that you probably don't do that.Joel Bruesekehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10395847887953875757noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29606082.post-80164894805849526702012-01-31T12:07:29.069-06:002012-01-31T12:07:29.069-06:00Hello Jeff,
Thanks for your comments here. I'...Hello Jeff,<br /><br />Thanks for your comments here. I'll take a little time and walk through them.<br /><br />First of all, let it be noted that this series encourages <i>generous giving</i>, as people are able to do so, and not to "keep their money in their pockets." :) The series is called "Freed from Tithing, Free to GIVE."<br /><br />Jesus is in the order of Melchizedek. Indeed. Hebrews 7 gives a wonderful account of what this is all about. In fact if we go back just a little bit in Hebrews, we can see that the writer mentions that 4 or 5 times. It's quite significant. The point he is making has nothing to do with tithing, but rather it has to do with why Jesus is superior to the Levite priesthood, and therefore can be our High Priest.<br /><br />He is not of the order of Aaron, which is where the Levites descended from. So according to the LAW, He cannot be a priest. So it had to be proven that He is superior to the Levites. <br /><br />The Levites were in Abraham's loins when he gave his tithe to Melchizedek. As the writer of Hebrews says, this shows that Melchizedek is greater than Abraham, and therefore is greater than the Levites, since they were in Abraham's loins. Therefore, Jesus is greater than the Levites, since He is of the order of Melchizedek. That's the whole point. Again, it has nothing to do with tithing. Abraham's tithe to Melchizedek is brought up only to show that Jesus is superior to the Levites, and therefore is our High Priest - and it also shows that the Levite priesthood and Old Covenant is done away with.<br /><br />You say that firstfruits go back to Adam. Well then, since all of mankind comes from Adam, then all of mankind should be giving firstfruits to God. I hereby commission you to tell all the world (not just the church) that since they come from Adam, they must give firstfruits. You can direct them to give to your church if you wish. ;)Joel Bruesekehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10395847887953875757noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29606082.post-25571786016563234502012-01-29T22:07:07.537-06:002012-01-29T22:07:07.537-06:00I am amazed at how are people will go to keep thei...I am amazed at how are people will go to keep their money in their pockets .<br />Jesus in the order of Melchizedek.<br />Correct not a Levite.<br />all of this is BEFORE the law .<br />the law came with Moses.<br />obedience will always be better than sacrifice .<br />You can tithe or not tithe.<br />If you do not tithe, the least, you never made it to an offering.<br />first fruits go back to adam . If you do not understand firstfruits, then you do not understand why Jesus had to go to the cross and we are blessed for it.<br />twist it anyway you like, I suggest you test God like He (Mal 3) said,<br />and see if you can out give Him . you and God are being robbed .Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29606082.post-17382651451759369392008-09-16T19:49:00.000-05:002008-09-16T19:49:00.000-05:00Ron,I can very much relate to your "rant." :)I am...Ron,<BR/><BR/>I can very much relate to your "rant." :)<BR/><BR/>I am also not "going to church" at the moment - haven't for over a year (although my wife and kids still go) - and it's amazing how people are so concerned that I've 'backslidden' or am having a poor time 'spiritually!'<BR/><BR/>I think it's true what you're saying about the church preaching the tithe because they don't trust people to "give" what they need to survive. I think a lot of the church system is built upon the foundation of having to have people give money in order for it to keep on going. As I'm going to share in one of the last posts here, it's almost as if the church has become a financial institution, with everything revolving around money.<BR/><BR/>It's interesting, isn't it, how so many lies are taught (they really are lies) about "if you don't tithe... God won't bless you" and stuff like that, or if you do tithe God will open up various monetary opportunities, etc. Depending upon your financial circumstances in life, people will judge you, as if it all has to do with whether you give ten percent of your income to a local church or not. These are simply made-up <I>fables</I> that never even had any scriptural basis under the old covenant, never mind under the new covenant!<BR/><BR/>I remember hearing the "give until it hurts" teaching. Man, it's just so out of whack!<BR/><BR/>I'd bet a LOT of people have been down to no money at all, and little or no food to eat, just because they thought they had to give ten percent of their money to a church. It's sad.<BR/><BR/>All of this (and more) is why I decided to write this series. I really hope people will be freed from the notion that tithing is required, and is even a new covenant principle, and I hope as well that many people will find the liberty in Christ to be able to give freely and generously, as they are able - and not always in financial ways.Joel Bruesekehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10395847887953875757noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29606082.post-13487742612098246752008-09-16T19:19:00.000-05:002008-09-16T19:19:00.000-05:00Amy,Yep indeed, when reading scripture we always n...Amy,<BR/><BR/>Yep indeed, when reading scripture we always need to be careful to see whom is being spoken to and what the point of the message is. All to often preachers preach "topical" sermons, which aren't always "bad" but yet often miss the context of the various scriptures that they use in their teachings.<BR/><BR/>And indeed as well, no human should ever be placed in a position such as that of God, nor should they be placed in positions that are higher than one another. We're one body of spiritual priests who all serve one another.Joel Bruesekehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10395847887953875757noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29606082.post-92032760180089107092008-09-16T19:09:00.000-05:002008-09-16T19:09:00.000-05:00Bino,Yep, I agree with everything you said. As yo...Bino,<BR/><BR/>Yep, I agree with everything you said. As you've previously mentioned, and as I'll also make mention of as this series wraps up, we are wholly God's and He is wholly ours. We are in Him and He is in us. He <I>is</I> our very life. It's 100% all the way, not 10% or any other % in any other way. God has come to us, and has brought us to Himself, fully. It's a brand new covenant of life, not based upon the old, dead one. Indeed, it's a marriage, as marriage is meant to be.Joel Bruesekehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10395847887953875757noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29606082.post-22894413975843853022008-09-16T11:10:00.000-05:002008-09-16T11:10:00.000-05:00Joel,Great Posts!!I very much agree, I read some o...Joel,<BR/>Great Posts!!<BR/>I very much agree, I read some of the comments in eariler posts and was really not suprised. Coming so recently from a church enviroment that made the tithe a "demand" (actually you could not become a member unless you gave 10% every week) I can see what you are saying clearly. It is still a bit hard and because of that I understand where some of the others are coming from. In my perspective, I do not think the "church" trusts us to <B><I>give</I></B> what it needs to survive, ergo they preach the tithe (my view of it anyway). Admittidly I do not attend a church at the moment, and in many eyes makes me look like I am <I>falling away</I> and its no wonder I am thinking like I do. However, I cannot believe the things I had been taught in my old church, like, "if I do not tithe God will take away what I do have and not return it until I do, or that if I pay the tithe God will shower me with monetary opportunities, good job with more pay than what someone else doing the same thing makes because I am <I>favored</I>. (I know thats blunt, but but its the jist of how it makes me feel, it is just preached in a more palitable manner, after all would anyone stay in a church that told it straight up like that?) The main thing is I just do not think we are trusted, I could be wrong but that is the feeling I get. I along with the rest of the church body was constantly told to <I>give in our tithes till it hurts</I> and God will repay with interests, but, if by chance things did not go well for us financially we are told that we held back on some of our tithes or some other line or another. I know this sounds like a rant, pardon me please, but its just still pretty fresh and still annoys me a bit. I love to give, love to share, which is why it hurt me so bad to see those things slowing down under the demand to give more than what I could afford, after all I preceived that giving was more than material giving. I do not think some appreciate that when you are struggling hard, a 10% demand can be the difference between eating and not eating, but hey, isn't that a great time to excersize church mandated fasting? :)<BR/>RonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29606082.post-10691553025403030662008-09-16T10:31:00.000-05:002008-09-16T10:31:00.000-05:00Joel,Great points here! As I was reading, a few th...Joel,<BR/>Great points here! As I was reading, a few things came to mind...<BR/>Regarding the Pharisee's "acting" externally like humble and generous givers: "Don't judge a book by it's cover.<BR/>When looking at scripture, know "to whom" Jesus was specifically targeting his messages to. If one doesn't, then significant mistakes are bound to be made by placing Old Testament laws over New Testament living.<BR/>Only God (Jesus Christ/Father) has been, is or will be Perfect. No human being will ever be. Nothing we "do" ever is either. Striving for Perfection is wasteful. However, seeking to be true to ourselves, as God's redeemed child, and loving Him and others is how we are meant to live.<BR/>As well, we should NEVER place any human man in a position (physically, spiritually, mentally) that is as high as God. God (Christ Jesus) is our ONLY High Priest. All other believers belong to a priesthood, but none of us should ever be lifted up in a position "higher" than another.<BR/><BR/>Well written blog, Joel!<BR/><BR/>Blessings,<BR/>~Amy :)<BR/>http://amyiswalkinginthespirit.blogspot.comAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29606082.post-25731822272087433952008-09-16T09:56:00.000-05:002008-09-16T09:56:00.000-05:00Joel,Excellent!I just posted a new post The Mixtur...Joel,<BR/><BR/>Excellent!<BR/><BR/>I just posted a new post <A HREF="http://branchofvine.blogspot.com/2008/09/mixture.html" REL="nofollow">The Mixture</A> which deals with the mixing of law and grace.<BR/><BR/>When we teach 'tithe', we are mixing law and grace which is a 'foolishness' according to Apostle Paul. He even cursed those who do that!<BR/><BR/>People do not realize that we have a brand new level of intimacy possible with God now.<BR/><BR/>What if I give 10% of my income to my wife to put it in her account and I keep the 90% in my account? That shows us that we have a troubled marriage. As a husband and wife, we share same account. What ever is mine is hers, and what ever is hers is mine.<BR/><BR/>That's the level of intimacy we have with God. Everything He has is mine and everything I have is His. Why are acting silly by separating a mere '10%' and thinking that we are 'giving back to God'?<BR/><BR/>People but still live in an unmarried mentality (as I talked in the post) today. It's sad.Bino M.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02303467552834533436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29606082.post-40802308884794106132008-09-16T09:54:00.001-05:002008-09-16T09:54:00.001-05:00Dave, my friend! Thanks so much!Dave, my friend! Thanks so much!Joel Bruesekehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10395847887953875757noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29606082.post-51868721773414770622008-09-16T09:54:00.000-05:002008-09-16T09:54:00.000-05:00Russell,I think I agree with what you're saying, i...Russell,<BR/><BR/>I <I>think</I> I agree with what you're saying, if I follow you correctly. My main purpose here was to show how this little section of Hebrews 7 was not about Christians tithing to Jesus, but that it's a set up for vs. 11, a need for another priesthood. You're right. If you continue to follow the progression up to and beyond vs. 18, the whole section (in fact several chapters) has to do with the annulling, or abolishment, of the former law.<BR/><BR/>Bino talked about this as well in the comments of Part 5, that Jesus came out of the line of Judah, not out of the lawful line of the Levites. It's a completely different order - "according to the order of Melchizedek."<BR/><BR/>To all... this is one reason why I've been saying, either in the posts or in the comments, that it's good to read all of Hebrews to get the full context of what's being said here. The writer of Hebrews quotes 2 or 3 times from Psalm 110:4, in which David, speaking of the Messiah, says, "You are a priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek." It would be great to spend more time on that in this series, but it was getting too long. :) Mainly I simply wanted to highlight that Hebrews mention of the tithe <I>wasn't</I> about Christians tithing.Joel Bruesekehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10395847887953875757noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29606082.post-55481859207531760722008-09-16T09:37:00.000-05:002008-09-16T09:37:00.000-05:00Joel Bro!I am blown away at your blog! Nice work, ...Joel Bro!<BR/>I am blown away at your blog! Nice work, dude!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29606082.post-52875734745949730512008-09-16T08:03:00.000-05:002008-09-16T08:03:00.000-05:00Hebrews 7:12-19 is the most important pasasge on t...Hebrews 7:12-19 is the most important pasasge on tithing after Calvary. <BR/><BR/>The law, or commandment, to take tithes from 7:5 saw a "necessary" change in 7:P12 gbecasue Melchizedek was not even a Hebrew. And taht "necessary change" was its "abolishment" in 7:18 becasuke fo the "better new covenant" of 7:19.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com